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	<title>Comments on: Typo3, Joomla!, and Drupal CMSs performance testing</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.helion-prime.com/alexshapovalov/2008/05/19/typo3-joomla-and-drupal-cmss-performance-testing.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.helion-prime.com/alexshapovalov/2008/05/19/typo3-joomla-and-drupal-cmss-performance-testing.html</link>
	<description>Just another WordPress weblog</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 21:11:33 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: alex.shapovalov</title>
		<link>http://blogs.helion-prime.com/alexshapovalov/2008/05/19/typo3-joomla-and-drupal-cmss-performance-testing.html#comment-117</link>
		<dc:creator>alex.shapovalov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 10:05:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.helion-prime.com/?p=12#comment-117</guid>
		<description>Hello Anthony.

There are enough comparisons on Internet that compare exactly features.
But it is hard to compare: what to compare? : features, usability, compare for some platform (php, ruby, java, etc) or lightweight, or only commercial CMSs?
An important note: in our company we use only open-source software.

I use my current experience: most wonderful CMSs [enough lightweight, mature, good api]  now written in php, although I prefer Java over any other software language:
joomla - user-friendly, good api, and documentation
drupal - super lightweight, good documentation
typo3 - extra features, good documentation

Sorry if I missed your favorite one, but world is big .. and probably very soon I will like something in Ruby on Rails.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Anthony.</p>
<p>There are enough comparisons on Internet that compare exactly features.<br />
But it is hard to compare: what to compare? : features, usability, compare for some platform (php, ruby, java, etc) or lightweight, or only commercial CMSs?<br />
An important note: in our company we use only open-source software.</p>
<p>I use my current experience: most wonderful CMSs [enough lightweight, mature, good api]  now written in php, although I prefer Java over any other software language:<br />
joomla - user-friendly, good api, and documentation<br />
drupal - super lightweight, good documentation<br />
typo3 - extra features, good documentation</p>
<p>Sorry if I missed your favorite one, but world is big .. and probably very soon I will like something in Ruby on Rails.</p>
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		<title>By: Anthony</title>
		<link>http://blogs.helion-prime.com/alexshapovalov/2008/05/19/typo3-joomla-and-drupal-cmss-performance-testing.html#comment-108</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2008 22:38:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.helion-prime.com/?p=12#comment-108</guid>
		<description>Nice CMS comparison,
But WHY do you use all 3 of these.
I'd like to see a Pros &#38; Cons review.
Typo3 seems excessively "guru" intensive, but what about Drupal vs. Joomla ?
Cheers,
Anthony</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice CMS comparison,<br />
But WHY do you use all 3 of these.<br />
I&#8217;d like to see a Pros &amp; Cons review.<br />
Typo3 seems excessively &#8220;guru&#8221; intensive, but what about Drupal vs. Joomla ?<br />
Cheers,<br />
Anthony</p>
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		<title>By: typo3naut</title>
		<link>http://blogs.helion-prime.com/alexshapovalov/2008/05/19/typo3-joomla-and-drupal-cmss-performance-testing.html#comment-27</link>
		<dc:creator>typo3naut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 09:39:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.helion-prime.com/?p=12#comment-27</guid>
		<description>Using TYPO3 without caching is like driving a porche with activated handbreak ;-)
Nobody uses TYPO3 without caching. So, it's a really strange performance test you're doing here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Using TYPO3 without caching is like driving a porche with activated handbreak ;-)<br />
Nobody uses TYPO3 without caching. So, it&#8217;s a really strange performance test you&#8217;re doing here.</p>
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		<title>By: alex.shapovalov</title>
		<link>http://blogs.helion-prime.com/alexshapovalov/2008/05/19/typo3-joomla-and-drupal-cmss-performance-testing.html#comment-19</link>
		<dc:creator>alex.shapovalov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 12:44:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.helion-prime.com/?p=12#comment-19</guid>
		<description>Hello Tosin.

&gt;&gt;Which tool did you use to measure duration? (milliseconds per page request)
I have used Jmeter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Tosin.</p>
<p>>>Which tool did you use to measure duration? (milliseconds per page request)<br />
I have used Jmeter.</p>
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		<title>By: Tosin</title>
		<link>http://blogs.helion-prime.com/alexshapovalov/2008/05/19/typo3-joomla-and-drupal-cmss-performance-testing.html#comment-26</link>
		<dc:creator>Tosin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 12:28:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.helion-prime.com/?p=12#comment-26</guid>
		<description>Which tool did you use to measure duration? (milliseconds per page request)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Which tool did you use to measure duration? (milliseconds per page request)</p>
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		<title>By: alex.shapovalov</title>
		<link>http://blogs.helion-prime.com/alexshapovalov/2008/05/19/typo3-joomla-and-drupal-cmss-performance-testing.html#comment-24</link>
		<dc:creator>alex.shapovalov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 08:49:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.helion-prime.com/?p=12#comment-24</guid>
		<description>Hello Anthony.

Please, find my complete answer in my new post:
http://blogs.helion-prime.com/alexshapovalov/2008/07/02/battle-n2-typo3-joomla-and-drupal-cmss-performance-testing.html

Hope I answered your questions..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Anthony.</p>
<p>Please, find my complete answer in my new post:<br />
<a href="http://blogs.helion-prime.com/alexshapovalov/2008/07/02/battle-n2-typo3-joomla-and-drupal-cmss-performance-testing.html" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.helion-prime.com/alexshapovalov/2008/07/02/battle-n2-typo3-joomla-and-drupal-cmss-performance-testing.html</a></p>
<p>Hope I answered your questions..</p>
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		<title>By: Anthony</title>
		<link>http://blogs.helion-prime.com/alexshapovalov/2008/05/19/typo3-joomla-and-drupal-cmss-performance-testing.html#comment-20</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 09:02:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.helion-prime.com/?p=12#comment-20</guid>
		<description>&#62;&#62;But I make tests to test effectiveness of pure systems rather then caching sub-system.
&#62;&#62;I think that developers should think about effectiveness of their components and
&#62;&#62;don’t pass care about performance entirely to caching or other technics.
I completely don't agree with that.  Sometimes, doing certain things is plain hard (cpu time wise), and the only way to get good performance is to cache it.  Joomla! does this with the menus.  It's an xml node based menuing system, which provides a HUGE amount of flexability, but it takes a bunch of memory and time to build.  So the system is designed with caching in mind.  Disabling it, or honestly testing without it is not testing the system.  In some scenarios, cache is an afterthought, but a lot of them caching is esential.


&#62;&#62;Surely cache is good as well as better CPU, bandwidth, and cluster when
&#62;&#62;solution is already got all benefits of good software design.
NOOO... I can do more with cache, than you could do with a cluster.  I have a site running right now on a single box that would take at least 8 to 10 servers in a cluster if it wasn't for caching.  If caching is designed well, there are no negatives.

Also, purposely benchmarking without opcode caching is fine, as long as you realize nobody in their right mind would run a high volume site without it.  It's that important.  So I do agree with Dimitry, in that "No one runs systems like that in real life", but only for reasonably high volume sites.  Your tests may be valid for a site hosted in a shared environment, but for the rest of the world, we use things like opcode caches, and memory resident sessions, and tune the daylights out of MySQL, php and (cough)apache(cough)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;&gt;But I make tests to test effectiveness of pure systems rather then caching sub-system.<br />
&gt;&gt;I think that developers should think about effectiveness of their components and<br />
&gt;&gt;don’t pass care about performance entirely to caching or other technics.<br />
I completely don&#8217;t agree with that.  Sometimes, doing certain things is plain hard (cpu time wise), and the only way to get good performance is to cache it.  Joomla! does this with the menus.  It&#8217;s an xml node based menuing system, which provides a HUGE amount of flexability, but it takes a bunch of memory and time to build.  So the system is designed with caching in mind.  Disabling it, or honestly testing without it is not testing the system.  In some scenarios, cache is an afterthought, but a lot of them caching is esential.</p>
<p>&gt;&gt;Surely cache is good as well as better CPU, bandwidth, and cluster when<br />
&gt;&gt;solution is already got all benefits of good software design.<br />
NOOO&#8230; I can do more with cache, than you could do with a cluster.  I have a site running right now on a single box that would take at least 8 to 10 servers in a cluster if it wasn&#8217;t for caching.  If caching is designed well, there are no negatives.</p>
<p>Also, purposely benchmarking without opcode caching is fine, as long as you realize nobody in their right mind would run a high volume site without it.  It&#8217;s that important.  So I do agree with Dimitry, in that &#8220;No one runs systems like that in real life&#8221;, but only for reasonably high volume sites.  Your tests may be valid for a site hosted in a shared environment, but for the rest of the world, we use things like opcode caches, and memory resident sessions, and tune the daylights out of MySQL, php and (cough)apache(cough)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: alex.shapovalov</title>
		<link>http://blogs.helion-prime.com/alexshapovalov/2008/05/19/typo3-joomla-and-drupal-cmss-performance-testing.html#comment-22</link>
		<dc:creator>alex.shapovalov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 07:03:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.helion-prime.com/?p=12#comment-22</guid>
		<description>Hello Dmitry Dulepov.
Thank you for your comments.

&gt;&gt;No one runs systems like that in real life.
&gt;&gt;Every real web server is optimized for performance of the system it runs.
I fully agree with you no one use systems like that in production environment.

But I make tests to test effectiveness of pure systems rather then caching sub-system.
I think that developers should think about effectiveness of their components and
don't pass care about performance entirely to caching or other technics.

Surely cache is good as well as better CPU, bandwidth, and cluster when
solution is already got all benefits of good software design.

Do you agree?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Dmitry Dulepov.<br />
Thank you for your comments.</p>
<p>>>No one runs systems like that in real life.<br />
>>Every real web server is optimized for performance of the system it runs.<br />
I fully agree with you no one use systems like that in production environment.</p>
<p>But I make tests to test effectiveness of pure systems rather then caching sub-system.<br />
I think that developers should think about effectiveness of their components and<br />
don&#8217;t pass care about performance entirely to caching or other technics.</p>
<p>Surely cache is good as well as better CPU, bandwidth, and cluster when<br />
solution is already got all benefits of good software design.</p>
<p>Do you agree?</p>
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		<title>By: Dmitry Dulepov</title>
		<link>http://blogs.helion-prime.com/alexshapovalov/2008/05/19/typo3-joomla-and-drupal-cmss-performance-testing.html#comment-21</link>
		<dc:creator>Dmitry Dulepov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 20:24:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.helion-prime.com/?p=12#comment-21</guid>
		<description>This test is synthetic and does not have much value. No one runs systems like that in real life. Every real web server is optimized for performance of the system it runs. I do not know anything about Joomla or Drupal, but this system is not configured optimally for TYPO3. So TYPO3 results can be discarded as improperly tested.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This test is synthetic and does not have much value. No one runs systems like that in real life. Every real web server is optimized for performance of the system it runs. I do not know anything about Joomla or Drupal, but this system is not configured optimally for TYPO3. So TYPO3 results can be discarded as improperly tested.</p>
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		<title>By: alex.shapovalov</title>
		<link>http://blogs.helion-prime.com/alexshapovalov/2008/05/19/typo3-joomla-and-drupal-cmss-performance-testing.html#comment-7</link>
		<dc:creator>alex.shapovalov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 09:40:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.helion-prime.com/?p=12#comment-7</guid>
		<description>Hello Andrew Eddie.
Thank you for comments.

&gt;&gt;Where the installations weighed in any way to get a roughly similar template output.
&gt;&gt;For example, did you just use the default installs for each CMS,
&gt;&gt;or did you tune each of them to ensure they are outputting the same page (within reason of course).
Sure I made special pages and redesigned template to have similar pages with approximately same sizes for every CMSs.

&gt;&gt;Second question is do Drupal and Typo3 have similar on-the-fly translation engines
&gt;&gt; to compare with? That would be good to see.
I have not worked with these engines. I will think about such testing.

&gt;&gt;Finally, do you have a PHP cache or accelerator running?
&gt;&gt;J!1.5 performs better with one.
No. I used only pure GNU/Linux Debian php5 package with default settings.
Anyway any improvement will provide same advantages for every CMSs.
And without php and internal CMSs caches we have fair comparison.

Hope I answered your questions..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Andrew Eddie.<br />
Thank you for comments.</p>
<p>>>Where the installations weighed in any way to get a roughly similar template output.<br />
>>For example, did you just use the default installs for each CMS,<br />
>>or did you tune each of them to ensure they are outputting the same page (within reason of course).<br />
Sure I made special pages and redesigned template to have similar pages with approximately same sizes for every CMSs.</p>
<p>>>Second question is do Drupal and Typo3 have similar on-the-fly translation engines<br />
>> to compare with? That would be good to see.<br />
I have not worked with these engines. I will think about such testing.</p>
<p>>>Finally, do you have a PHP cache or accelerator running?<br />
>>J!1.5 performs better with one.<br />
No. I used only pure GNU/Linux Debian php5 package with default settings.<br />
Anyway any improvement will provide same advantages for every CMSs.<br />
And without php and internal CMSs caches we have fair comparison.</p>
<p>Hope I answered your questions..</p>
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